TESTIMONY OF NELSON DELGADO
The testimony of Nelson Delgado
was taken on April 16, 1964, at the U.S. Courthouse, Foley Square, New York,
N.Y., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's
Commission.
Nelson Delgado, having been
first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
Mr. LIEBELER. My name is Wesley
J. Liebeler. I am a member of the legal staff of the President's Commission
investigating the assassination of President Kennedy. Staff members have been
authorized to take the testimony of witnesses by the Commission pursuant to
authority granted to the Commission Executive Order. No. 11130, dated November
29, 1963, and Joint Resolution of Congress No. 137.
Under the Commission's rules for
the taking of testimony, each witness is to be provided with a copy of the
Executive order and of the joint resolution, and a copy of the rules that the
Commission has adopted governing the taking of testimony from witnesses.
The Commission will provide you
copies of those documents. I cannot do it
at this point
because I do not have them with me, but we will provide you with copies of the
documents to which I have referred.
Under the Commission's rules for
the taking of testimony, each witness is entitled to 3 days' notice, before he
is required to come in and give testimony.
I don't think you had 3 days' notice.
Mr. DELGADO. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. But each witness
can waive that notice requirement if he wishes, and I assume that you would be
willing to waive that notice requirement since you are here; is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. We want to inquire
of you this morning concerning the association that the Commission understands
you had with Lee Harvey Oswald during the time that he was a member of the
United States Marine Corps. The Commission has been advised that you also were
a member of the United States Marine Corps and were stationed with Oswald in
Santa Ana, Calif., for a period of time.
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Before we get into
the details of that, would you state your full name for the record, please?
Mr. DELGADO. Nelson Delgado.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are now in the
United States Army; is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is your rank?
Mr. DELGADO. Specialist 4.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is your
serial number?
Mr. DELGADO. RA282 53 799.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where are you
stationed?
Mr. DELGADO. I am stationed at
Delta Battery, 4th Missile Battalion, 71st Artillery, in Hazlet, N.J.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long have you
been in the Army?
Mr. DELGADO. I joined the Army
on November 1, 1960.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of work
do you do in the Army?
Mr. DELGADO. I am a 94116, which
means that I am a cook, with a linguist digit, which means I can speak and
write Spanish fluently. That is what that last 6 in that digit means.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you go
into the Army?
Mr. DELGADO. I went into the
Army at Fort Ord, Calif.
Mr. LIEBELER. And would you
briefly tell us the training that you received after you went into the Army and
the places at which you were stationed from the time you went into the Army up
to the present time?
Mr. DELGADO. Well, in 1960,
November 1960, I reported at Fort Ord. Approximately 15 days after I reported
there I received orders for Germany. I had no basic training because of my
Marine Corps basic training took care of that.
December the 15th, 14th, around
there, I left for Germany. And I arrived in Germany, and I served with
Headquarters Battery, 5th Missile Battalion, 6th Artillery, APO 34, at
Baumholder, Germany.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long were you
stationed in Germany?
Mr. DELGADO. I was stationed
there approximately 2 years and a day.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were you stationed
with the same outfit all that time?
Mr. DELGADO. No. Six months of
the time I was with them; then I was transferred to a line battery, C Battery,
same missile battalion, same artillery, and I was for a while the old man's
driver, the captain's driver; and then I was--I asked for a transfer to the
messhall so I could get advanced in my rating, and I was put in the messhall,
then promoted there also, and I have been a cook since then.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you stay with
the C Battery until you left Germany?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Approximately when
did you leave Germany?
Mr. DELGADO. December the
8th. December the 8th.
Mr. LIEBELER. 1962?
Mr. DELGADO. 1962, right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where were you
stationed after that?
Mr. DELGADO. Fort Hancock, N.J.;
and from there I was put in the line battery, Delta Battery.
Mr. LIEBELER. And that is where
you are assigned at the present time?
Mr. DELGADO. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you working
now as a cook?
Mr. DELGADO. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are also the
mess steward of your messhall; is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. No, not mess
steward; first cook.
Mr. LIEBELER First cook?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you are not in
charge of the messhall?
Mr. DELGADO. No; I am in charge
of the personnel that work the day I am working.
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned that
your MOS, I believe it is called, your military occupation specialty, has an
indication that you are qualified to speak Spanish or another language; is that
correct?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you take tests
while you were in the Army to establish your proficiency in the Spanish
language?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes, I took the
language proficiency test, and also the OCS test, the regular test they give
you when you first go into the service, and I passed them all. It's in my 201
files, my military records.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you pass the
Spanish proficiency test?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes. In fact I was
offered to be sent to Monterey language school.
Mr. LIEBELER. To continue your studies in connection with
the Spanish language?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You took the
Spanish proficiency test when you came into the Army at Fort Ord; is that
correct?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where were you
born?
Mr. DELGADO. I was born in
Brooklyn, N.Y., in 1939.
Mr. LIEBELER. At what address?
Where?
Mr. DELGADO. I believe it was
Kings County Hospital.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your parents still
reside in Brooklyn?
Mr. DELGADO. 303 47th Street.
That's what my address was during the Marine Corps, but right now the
neighborhood is tore down, so there's no record of it now.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your parents
reside in Brooklyn?
Mr. DELGADO. No. My parents are
divorced. One lives in Puerto Rico, and my mother lives in California.
Mr. LIEBELER. You lived at the
address in Brooklyn that you just gave me from the time you were born until the
time you went into the Marine Corps; is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us briefly
where you went to school.
Mr. DELGADO. That's pretty hard
to keep track of, because I was like a yo-yo, back and forth from one parent to
the other. But I went to school in P.S- No. 2.
Mr. LIEBELER. In Brooklyn?
Mr. DELGADO. In Brooklyn, until
the third grade, and I was transferred. I went to California with my mother. I
was there in the Park Avenue Grammar School from the third grade to the fifth.
Mr. LIEBELER. What city in
California?
Mr. DELGADO. Wilmington, Calif.
And then I went back to New York, back to P.S. No. 2 for the 5th grade to the
6th, graduated from there, went to public school, Dewey Junior High School--I
don't know what P.S. it is--from the 7th grade to the 8th and then went back to
California and went to Wilmington Junior High School from the 7th to the about
the 11th grade, and the 11th grade I went back to Brooklyn into Manual Training
High School and dropped out after the 11th grade.
Mr. LIEBELER. You have not
graduated from high school?
Mr. DELGADO. No. I have my high
school graduation through USAFL.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is the United
States Armed Forces Institute; is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. When you dropped
out of school here in Brooklyn, did you then join the Marine Corps?
Mr. DELGADO. No. I held a job
for a while at Van Dyk & Reeves, on 42d Street and 2d Avenue, in Brooklyn,
N.Y.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of a job
was that?
Mr. DELGADO. It was just a
regular laborer at an olive factory, making Maraschino cherries and olives and
so forth. And it lasted about 2 1/2 months, and I joined the Marine Corps.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do both of your
parents speak Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are they both from
Puerto Rico originally?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Approximately when
did they come from Puerto Rico?
Mr. DELGADO. My father came when
he was roughly 20 years of age. My
mother came when she was about 13.
Mr. LIEBELER. Approximately hold
old are your parents now?
Mr. DELGADO. My father is around
48. My mother is about 42.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you join
the Marine Corps?
Mr. DELGADO. Down at Whitehall
Street, in New York City.
Mr. LIEBELER. What training did
you receive? Where were you sent?
Mr. DELGADO. Well, when we left
New York I was sent to Parris Island, S.C., for basic training. Upon completion
of that, I was sent to Camp Le Jeune, N.C., for intensive training. Then I
received schooling in electronics school at Jacksonville Naval Air Station,
Jacksonville, Fla.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you remember
when you were there at Jacksonville?
Mr. DELGADO. I was there in
19--the the beginning of 1957.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is the exact
title of the school that you went to? Do you remember?
Mr. DELGADO. Electronics school
is all I can remember. From there, upon graduation from there, I received my
choice of training, which was aircraft control and warning, and I was sent to
school at Biloxi Air Force Base. Miss., and there I went to aircraft control
and warning school there, and it lasted about 7 weeks. Upon completion there
and graduation, I received my orders for Marine Air Control Squadron 9, Santa
Ana, Calif.
Mr. LIEBELER. Approximately when
did you arrive at Santa Ana?
Mr. DELGADO. The beginning of
1958.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you make the
acquaintance of Lee Harvey Oswald at any time prior to the time that you
arrived at Santa Aria?
Mr. DELGADO. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. You didn't know
Oswald while you were in school at Biloxi or Jacksonville?
Mr. DELGADO. No. He was past
that already.
Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald had been to
these schools?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you learn
subsequently that Oswald had been in school in Jacksonville and Biloxi?
Mr. DELGADO. All of us in MOS
6741 knew that he had been there.
Mr. LIEBELER. For the benefit of
the record, MOS stands for Military Occupation Specialty. Is that right?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And the MOS number
that you have just referred to was what?
Mr. DELGADO. Airborne
electronics operators is about the equivalent, I guess.
Mr. LIEBELER. Airborne
electronics operator?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes; our job was
the surveillance of aircraft in distress, control of intercepts and approaches,
and mostly air surveillance and help of aircraft running into problems.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long were you
statiofed at Santa Ana?
Mr. DELGADO. From 1958, I would
say, until November 2, 1959, when I got discharged.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you were at
Santa Ann after you completed your training, throughout your entire Marine
Corps career?
Mr. DELGADO. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Until the time you
were discharged?
Mr. DELGADO. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have
access to classified information of any sort in the course of your work at
Santa Aria?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes; we all had
access to information, classified information. I believe it was classified
secret. We all had secret clearances. There was some information there as to
different codes and challenges that we had to give to aircraft and challenges
and so on.
Mr. LIEBELER. In other words, if
I can understand correctly the nature of your work, you actually worked in a
control room?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Observing radar
screens?
Mr. DELGADO. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And when the radar
screen would pick up an aircraft, you would then challenge that aircraft?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And it would have
to identify itself?
Mr. DELGADO. That's true.
Mr. LIEBELER. And the code or
signals that you sent to the aircraft requesting it to identify itself were
classified information?
Mr. DELGADO. That's right, along
with the range capabilities of the radar sets and their blindspots and so forth
and so on. You know, each site has blind-spots, and we know the degrees where
our blindspots are and who covers us and that information. That's considered
secret, what outfit covers us and things like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. And what was the
latter----
Mr. DELGADO. What outfit covers
us, that we can see. And as I say, the
capabilities of the radars, as I said before.
Mr. LIEBELER. How far out they
can reach?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And pick up an
aircraft?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes; and how
high----
Mr. LIEBELER. And how high----
Mr. DELGADO. And how low we can
catch them and where we can't catch them.
Mr. LIEBELER. And I suppose all
the men who worked, with the radar sets knew these things?
Mr. DELGADO. They all knew. What
do they call it now--authentication charts, which is also a secret.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is the nature
of these charts?
Mr. DELGADO. Authorization chart
is, if we receive an order over the phone, over the headsets--authentication.
Pardon me. That's the word. Let's say this order, we can question it. What it
actually amounts to, he has to authenticate it for us. Now, he should have the
same table or code in front of him that I have. He gives me a code. I would
look it up in my authentication chart, decipher it, and I could tell whether or
not this man has the same thing I am using. And this changes from hour to hour,
see. There's no chance of it--and day to day, also.
Mr. LIEBELER. So that the
information, the code itself would not be of any particular value to the enemy,
since it is changed?
Mr. DELGADO. It's changed from
day to day; no.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did there come a
time when you were stationed at Santa Ana that you met Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes; in the
beginning of 1959. He arrived at our outfit. I didn't take no particular notice
of him at the time, but later on we had--we started talking, and we got to know
each other quite well. This is all before Christmas, before I took my leave.
Mr. LIEBELER. This was in 1957
or 1958?
Mr. DELGADO. 1958. And we had
basic interests. He liked Spanish, and he talked to me for a while in Spanish
or tried to, and since nobody bothered, you know--I was kind of a loner,
myself, you know. I didn't associate
with too many people.
Mr. LIEBELER. How old were you
at that time?
Mr. DELGADO. I was 17--18 years
of age; 17 or 18.
Mr. LIEBELER. About the same age
as Oswald?
Mr. DELGADO. Right. He was the
same age as I was. And nothing really developed until I went on leave oh, yes.
At the time he was--he was commenting on the fight that Castro was having at
Sierra Madres at the beginning, just about the turn of 1959. When I went on
leave, it just so happened that my leave coincided with the first of January,
when Castro took over. So when I got back, he was the first one to see me, and
he said, "Well, you took a leave and went there and helped them, and they
all took over." It was a big joke.
So we got along pretty well. He
had trouble in one of the huts, and he got transferred to mine.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know what
trouble he had in the other hut?
Mr. DELGADO. Well, the way I
understand it, he wouldn't hold his own. Came time for cleanup, and general
cleanliness of the barracks, he didn't want to participate, and he would be
griping all the time. So the sergeant that was in charge of that hut asked to
have him put out, you know. So consequently, they put him into my hut.
Mr. LIEBELER. What were these
huts? Were they quonset huts?
Mr. DELGADO. Quonset huts,
right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And they served as
barracks, right?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. How many men----
Mr. DELGADO. Each quonset hut
was divided in half. Now, in each half
lived six men, two to a room. They were divided into two rooms with a bath room
each side, each half of the quonset hut. I was living in one room. Oswald in
the other room. And then we had our barracks, we had quite a bit of turnovers,
because guys kept coming in and being transferred. Him and I seemed to be the
only ones staying in there. And we would meet during working hours and talk. He
was a complete believer that our way of government was not quite right, that--I
don't know how to say it; it's been so long. He was for, not the Communist way
of life, the Castro way of life, the way he was going to lead his people. He
didn't think our Government had too much to offer.
He never said any subversive
things or tried to take any classified information that I know of out or see
anybody about it.
As I said to the men that interviewed me
before, we went to the range at one time, and he didn't show no particular
aspects of being a sharpshooter at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. He didn't seem to
be particularly proficient with the rifle; is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of rifle
did you use?
Mr. DELGADO. He had an M-1. We
all had M-l's.
Mr. LIEBELER. Carbine or rifle?
Mr. DELGADO. The M-1 rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have them
in your quonset hut at all times?
Mr. DELGADO. No, sir; we had
them in the armory, in the quonset hut designated as the armory. And we went
there periodically to clean them up. And at the time in Santa Ana, he was with
me at one time.
Mr. LIEBELER. Each man was
assigned a particular rifle; is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have to
use the rifles to stand inspection?
Mr. DELGADO. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember
whether or not Oswald kept his rifle in good shape, clean?
Mr. DELGADO. He kept it
mediocre.. He always got gigged for his rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER. He did?
Mr. DELGADO Yes; very seldom did
he pass an inspection without getting gigged for one thing or another.
Mr. LIEBELER. With respect to
his rifle?
Mr. DELGADO. With respect to his
rifle. He didn't spend as much time as the rest of us did in the armory
cleaning it up. He would, when he was told to. Otherwise, he wouldn't come out
by himself to clean it. He was basically a man that complained quite
frequently.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you think he
complained more than the other Marines?
Mr. DELGADO. Well, yes; a little
bit more. Anything, anything that they told him to do, he found a way to argue
it to a point where both him and the man giving him the order both got
disgusted and mad at each other, and while the rest of us were working, he's
arguing with the man in charge. For him there was always another way of doing
things, an easier way for him to get something done.
Mr. LIEBELER. He didn't take too
well to orders that were given to him?
Mr. DELGADO. No; he didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever
notice that he responded better if he were asked to do something instead of
ordered to do something?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you say
that?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes; well, that's
what I worked with him. I never called
him Lee or Harvey or Oswald. It was always Oz.
Mr. LIEBELER. Oz.
Mr. DELGADO. Ozzie. I would say,
"Oz, how about taking care of the bathroom today?" Fine, he would do
it. But as far as somebody from the outside saying, "All right, Oswald, I
want you to take and police up that area"--"Why? Why do I have to do
it? Why are you always telling me to do it?" Well, it was an order, he
actually had to do it, but he didn't understand it like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long were you
and Oswald stationed together at Santa Ana?
Mr. DELGADO. Basically there
were 11 months, from January to the date of my discharge or the date that he
took off. He got discharged before I did.
Mr. LIEBELER. August or
September 1959, approximately?
Mr. DELGADO. 1959, right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And when were you
discharged?
Mr. DELGADO. I was discharged
November 2, 1960--1959.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Oswald tell
you that he had been overseas prior to the time he came to Santa Aria?
Mr. DELGADO. No; he didn't tell
me has was overseas. I got that from the fellows who knew him overseas, Atsugi,
Japan, and he was with the Marine Air Control Squadron, I believe it was, at
Atsugi. There was a couple of guys
stationed with him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember
their names?
Mr. DELGADO. No; I don't. I
think one of them was Dijonovich. There was two of them stationed with him
overseas.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever learn
whether Oswald had been any place else overseas other than Atsugi?
Mr. DELGADO. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never heard
that he was stationed in the Philippines for a while?
Mr. DELGADO. No; not that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you know
whether any of these other men that had been stationed overseas with Oswald had
been to the Philippines?
Mr. DELGADO. No; if they went on
a problem from there and got aboard a small carrier, they probably may have
taken him, say, to Hawaii or the Philippines or Guam, something like that, for
maneuvers, or Okinawa.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you had no
knowledge of it at the time?
Mr. DELGADO. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. You were about to
tell us, before I went into this question of how long you and Oswald were
together, about the rifle practice that you engaged in. Would you tell us about
that in as much detail as you can remember?
Mr. DELGADO. We went out to the
field, to the rifle range, and before we set out we had set up a pot. High
score would get this money; second highest, and so forth down to about the
fifth man that was high.
Mr. LIEBELER. How many men were
there?
Mr. DELGADO. Oh, in our company there was about roughly 80
men, 80 to 100 men, and I would say about 40 of us were in the pot. All low
ranking EM's, though. By that I mean corporal or below. None of the sergeants
were asked to join. Nine times out of ten they weren't firing, just watching
you. They mostly watched to see who was the best firer on the line.
Mr. LIEBELER. You say there were
about 40 men involved in this pot?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you say that
Oswald finished fifth from the highest?
Mr. DELGADO. No; he didn't even
place there. He didn't get no money at all. He just barely got his score, which
I think was about 170, I think it was, just barely sharpshooter.
Mr. LIEBELER. Sharpshooter is
the minimum.
Mr. DELGADO. Minimum.
Mr. LIEBELER. Rank?
Mr. DELGADO. It's broken down
into three categories: sharpshooters--no; pardon me, take that back; it's
marksman is the lowest, sharpshooters, and experts. And then Oswald had a
marksman's badge, which was just a plain, little thing here which stated "Marksman"
on it.
Mr. LIEBELER. And that was the
lowest one?
Mr. DELGADO. That was the
lowest. Well, that was qualifying; then there was nothing, which meant you
didn't qualify.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you fire with
Oswald?
Mr. DELGADO. Right; I was in the
same line. By that I mean we were on line together, the same time, but not
firing at the same position, but at the same time, and I remember seeing his.
It was a pretty big joke, because he got a lot of "Maggie's drawers,"
you know, a lot of misses, but he didn't give a darn.
Mr. LIEBELER. Missed the target
completely?
Mr. DELGADO. He just qualified,
that's it. He wasn't as enthusiastic as the rest of us. We all loved--liked,
you know, going to the range.
Mr. LIEBELER. My recollection of
how the rifle ranges worked is that the troops divided up into two different
groups, one of which operates the targets.
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And the other one
fires?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. When you said
before that you were in the same line as Oswald, you meant that you fired at the
same time that he did?
Mr. DELGADO. Right. And then all
of us went to the pits, our particular lines; then we went to the pits, you
know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald worked the
pits with you, the same time you did?
Mr. DELGADO. Right. And he was a
couple of targets down. It was very comical to see, because he had the other
guy pulling the target down, you know, and he will take and maybe gum it once
in a while or run the disk up; but he had the other guy pulling it up and
bringing it down, you know. He wasn't hardly going to exert himself.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember
approximately how far away Oswald was in the line from you when you fired?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes; he was just
one over from me.
Mr. LIEBELER. The next one, the
very next one?
Mr. DELGADO. Not the next one,
but the one over from that.
Mr. LIEBELER. There was one man
between you and Oswald?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you talk to
him about his performance with the rifle at that time?
Mr. DELGADO. Not during that
day, because I was mostly interested in my picking up the money, you know, and
I wasn't worrying about what he was doing; in fact if he wasn't bringing it in,
I didn't care, you know. I didn't want no competition.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you win any of
the money?
Mr. DELGADO. Oh, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How many of the
Marines won?
Mr. DELGADO. Just five of us.
Mr. LIEBELER. Just five?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And which one were
you?
Mr. DELGADO. I was---I shot
about 192. I came in about third.
Mr. LIEBELER. My recollection of
the rifle range from the time I was in the is that sometimes the scores that
were reported---
Mr. DELGADO. Were erroneous.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were erroneous.
Has that been your experience also?
Mr. DELGADO. Oh, yes; if there
is not close supervision. By this, that you have your buddy in back of you, he
could be penciling in your score; if you get a 4, he will put a 5 in there. It
doesn't work that way if you go to fire for record, like we did, because they
have an NCO line and they got a pit NCO.
Now they have a man at that target down there keeping score, and they
also have a man back here keeping score, and when both those score cards are
turned into the line officer, they both better correspond, and you have no way
of communicating with the man down the pit.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was that the way
it was handled when you fired this time?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. So there was very
little, if any, chance that Oswald's score could have been fixed up; is that
correct?
Mr. DELGADO. The only time you
could fix up the score, when you go down for just straight firing, what they
call battery column firing, and there is nobody to supervise, you pencil
yourself. The Marines is pretty strict about that when you go for line firing.
They want both scorecards to correspond with each other.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is this the only
time that you fired----
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. With Oswald during
the time that you were stationed at Santa Ana?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned
before in your testimony that you had been interviewed prior to this time?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. By whom?
Mr. DELGADO. FBI agents.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember
their names?
Mr. DELGADO. No; I don't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember
approximately when they talked to you?
Mr. DELGADO. They talked to me
about five times.
Mr. LIEBELER. About five times?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Could it have been
three times?
Mr. DELGADO. One is at home,
twice in the battery--no, four times, because they visited me once at home,
twice at the battery. the same fellow; then he brought another man in. Yes;
four times. Two different fellows. And one time one was a Spanish--I don't
know, I guess he was a Spanish interpreter.
Mr. LIEBELER. He spoke Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO. He spoke Castilian
Spanish.
Mr. LIEBELER. Castilian Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is a
different kind of Spanish from the kind you speak?
Mr. DELGADO. All right. He could go out here in New York City and go
down in Spanish Harlem and he would be lost.
I mean it would be all right if 90 percent of the Spanish people down
there were college graduates, they could understand him. They don't speak that
type of Spanish there, nor do they speak it in a lot of other Spanish
countries. It's like speaking the English as spoken in England, you know. You
can't expect a man from Georgia to try and understand a man from England the
way he speaks pure English.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have
difficulty in understanding this agent when he spoke to you in Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO. No. See, I took it
in high school. But he had difficulty in interpreting my Spanish.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you think he
was likely to have gotten the opinion that you weren't very proficient in
Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO. Right. But I would
be willing to challenge him if he and I go down to Spanish Harlem and see who
gets across faster.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you form an
impression of these FBI agents when they talked to you? Were they----
Mr. DELGADO. The one fellow, the
older one, white-haired fellow, he was a nice guy. And the two other ones, I
never seen them before, two different fellows.
Mr. LIEBELER. How many agents
talked to you altogether?
Mr. DELGADO. I don't know if
this Spanish guy was an agent or not. He never introduced himself. But there
was this white-hatred fellow, and then two different men; three men altogether,
not including this Spanish guy.
Mr. LIEBELER. So there would
have been four men altogether?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are quite sure
about that?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell me
approximately when these people talked to you?
Mr. DELGADO. The first time I
came in contact was, let's see, about January was the first time I was
contacted by the white-haired fellow.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was he the fellow
who spoke Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO. No; he was the man
from the Red Bank office, I believe he said he was, Red Bank, N.J. And then 2
weeks later he came to the battery to see me, about a month later he came back
with this Spanish fellow, and about another month these other two fellows came
in. They were all FBI agents though. They showed me their book.
Mr. LIEBELER. The first time
that the white-haired agent talked to you was when?
Mr. DELGADO. About January,
about a month or a month and a half after Kennedy's assassination.
Mr. LIEBELER. Could it have been
in the middle of December?
Mr. DELGADO. No; I don't think
it was that close. Let's see, November 22---I think it was more to the last
part of December, not to the middle.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did this FBI agent
talk to you about this rifle practice that you have just told us about?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes; he did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember
what you told him?
Mr. DELGADO. Basically the same
thing I told you, except he didn't ask for it like you did, about the
possibility of forging the score, and I didn't explain to him about the NCOs in
the lines and in the pits, also keeping the score.
Mr. LIEBELER. You told the FBI
that in your opinion Oswald was not a good rifle shot; is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And that he did
not show any unusual interest in his rifle, and in fact appeared less
interested in weapons than the average marine?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
He was mostly a thinker, a reader.
He read quite a bit.
Mr. LIEBELER. You told us just a
few minutes ago that you took third in the pool; is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did the FBI agent
ask you about that?
Mr. DELGADO. No. He asked me how
I placed. I told him I placed pretty
high; that's about all.
Mr. LIEBELER. In the report that
I have in front of me of an interview that Special Agents Richard B. Murdoch
and James A. Marley, Jr., took of you on January 15, 1964, at Holmdel, N.J.,
which would have been at the base---is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. It appears from
the record here, from the report that I have, that the Spanish-speaking agent
was Mr. Murdoch.
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. So that this would
have been the time that the Spanish-speaking
man was there?
Mr. DELGADO. Right. That was the
third visit I had from him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you discuss at
that time the rifle practice, do you remember?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes: I did. I
discussed the rifle practice all the time they came up.
Mr. LIEBELER. They asked you the
same questions?
Mr. DELGADO. Right; same thing
over and over again.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, the report
that I have says that Oswald, like most marines, took an interest in the
pool--they call it a pool instead of a pot, but that is the same thing?
Mr. DELGADO. Arm. Yes; pool.
Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald took an
interest in the pool, which was started for the marine getting the highest
score. It says, however, "Delgado
said neither he nor Oswald came close to winning."
Mr. DELGADO. No, no; that is
erroneous, because I won. He didn't win at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never told
these FBI agents that you yourself did not come close to winning?
Mr. DELGADO. No; because I
was--I was one of the highest ones there, I always had an expert badge on me.
Mr. LIEBELER. You were a good
rifle shot?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes; just like I
got one now [indicating].
Mr. LIEBELER. That is an expert?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes. This is a
sharpshooter.
Mr. LIEBELER. You have both a
sharpshooter and an expert badge; is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. Right. One for the M-1 rifle and the other for the
carbine rather, this is the M-14, the new one.
Mr. LIEBELER. The scores that
you got on that practice would be reflected in your military records, would
they not?
Mr. DELGADO. Right; in all
our--well, I think they call them 201 flies also in the Marines Corps--I can't
remember what they are now, but they are all there, especially that one
particular day, because that goes into your records. That's why they are so
strict.
Mr. LIEBELER. And there is no
chance in connection with that qualification firing that you can pencil in your
score?
Mr. DELGADO. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. You did not tell
the FBI that in your opinion Oswald had penciled in his qualifying score, did
you? Or did you tell them that?
Mr. DELGADO. He may have done,
you know; but if you got away with it you were more than lucky.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you talk to
the FBI about that possibility?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes, I told him he
,nay have, to qualify, because there was a lot of "Maggie's drawers"
on his side. Now, he may have had some way of knowing who was pulling, that is
another thing. Yon don't know who is out there in the pits, pulling it, see;
and it could be a buddy of yours or somebody you know, and they will help you
out. you know, get together, like before we all go and separate, you know, and
I will say to my buddy, "Well, look, I want to try and get on line 22, you
get on target 22 and I will try to be the first one on line"; so help each
other like that. And when they 7.o to the pits, they have their choice of
getting on the lines, you know, so I will try to work it out with the fellow
out there. But sometimes it doesn't work out that way. You just have to take
your chances.
Mr. LIEBELER. You told us that
in this particular rifle practice, or firing, that the scores were kept by
NCOs.
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was it a common
practice for the privates to make deals like this with the noncommissioned
officers in connection with a thing like this?
Mr. DELGADO. They are making a
deal with the other guys pulling the targets. See, the guy back there is also
keeping a score.
Now, your NCO, particularly your
NCO, may want to push you or make you qualify, because he doesn't want to spend
another day out there on the rifle range, see; so it's not all that
strict. Like if I was line NCO and I
had five men in my section, and four of them qualified, that means that some
other day, maybe on my day off, I will have to come in with this other fellow,
so I will help him along and push each other along.
You don't try to mess nobody up,
but you can't take a man that is shooting poorly and give him a 190 score, see;
you could just give him the bare minimum, 170 or 171, to make it look good.
Mr. LIEBELER. Just to qualify
him?
MR. DELGADO. Just to qualify
him.
MR. LIEBELER. So it is a
possibility that that might have happened even in this?
MR. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. You said that you
came in about third in this pool?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember
who the marines were that won it and took second place?
Mr. DELGADO. No. These men were
mostly transients. Like I said, I didn't have too many close friends in the
Marine Corps. I went to school with
quite a few of them that were stationed with us, but I never got real close to
any of them.
Mr. LIEBELER. This statement in
this FBI report indicates that you said that neither you nor Oswald came close
to winning the pool and that just must be a mistake; is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes, Correct. I
think in the first statement, too I said that I have won too, I believe, the
first one he took. I won, but he didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. The first report
indicates that you said that Oswald was a poor shot and didn't do well, but it
doesn't say anything about how you did.
Do you remember discussing how you did with the FBI in the first
interview that you had?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes, the first one
was at home. We had more time to talk,
and I was at ease there.
Mr. LIEBELER. And where would
that have been?
Mr. DELGADO. The address?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes.
Mr. DELGADO. 31 Oakwood
Road---30 Oakwood Road, Leonardo, N.J.
Mr. LIEBELER. You say that this
incident where you had to go out and qualify was some time in the spring of
1959?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you remember
any closer than that?
Mr. DELGADO. No. I just knew it
was the spring because that is the time everyone goes out to fire. It's either
going to be warm or it's going to be very cold when they go out there; it's
never in between. I could have said that, but that was the day I was upset,
because this guy kept on badgering me.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are talking
now about the interview when the Spanish-speaking agent was present?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Which one of them
kept badgering you?
Mr. DELGADO. The Spanish agent.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was he badgering
you about?
Mr. DELGADO. He kept on
sitting--he'd been talking, he'd been looking at me, doing this [indicating],
you know, and he was sitting just about where this gentleman is now, and I'd
been looking out of the corner of my eye, because I couldn't concentrate on
what he was saying because he kept staring at me, and he was giving me a case
of jitters, you know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have the
impression that he didn't believe you?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes. But I told
him, it's all right in the textbooks, that's fine, you know, but my theory, my
way is you are not going to get anything--I mean the majority of the stuff out
of books, you have got to apply yourself on the outside; and he may have gotten
an A in Spanish, and may write in--be able
to decipher
anything in Spanish into English, which is fine, as long as he stays in the
lower court, you know, where they are going to speak high Spanish, but when you
go to mingle with the people and speak their language, you know, don't go in
there with a college Spanish, because, to begin with, they are going to tell
right off, you know, well, this guy is a highfalutin fellow, you know, They are
not going to have anything to do with him.
You know, common Spanish is
quite often overlooked, and that is where we make our mistake When we go---I
think when we go abroad, because we try to speak Spanish the way El Camino Real
tells you to speak Spanish, and that is not going to do.
If you come, a fellow comes and
tries to be friends with you, and he is giving you all these thees and thous,
first of all you are not going to hit it off right. Speak like they do. If
they say damn; say damn, you know, get with them.
Mr. LIEBELER. You and this agent
did not strike it off too well?
Mr. DELGADO. No, I am afraid
not. We just spent hours arguing back
and forth.
Mr. LIEBELER. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. LIEBELER. We just referred
to the El Camino Real that you mentioned, and you mentioned that that was a
Spanish textbook; is that correct?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. One in which the
Castilian Spanish is taught?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you tell us
some more about your discussions with Oswald concerning the Castro movement or
the situation in Cuba?
Mr. DELGADO. We had quite many
discussions regarding Castro. At the time I was in favor of Castro, I
wholeheartedly supported him, and made it known that I thought he was a pretty
good fellow, and that was one of the main things Oswald and I always hit off so
well, we were along the same lines of thought. Castro at the time showed all
possibilities of being a freedom-loving man, a democratic sort of person, that
was going to do away with all tyranny and finally give the Cuban people a
break. But then he turned around and started to purge the Russian purge,
started executing all these pro-Batistas or anybody associated with a
pro-Batista, just word of mouth. I would say he is a Batista, and right away
they would grab him, give him a kangaroo court and shoot him. He and I had
discussed about that, and right and wrong way that he should have gone about
doing it.
Castro at the time, his brother
Raoul was the only known Communist, and I mentioned the fact that he was a
Communist, but that although Castro was the leader, I doubt if he would follow
the Communist line of life, you know. At the time I don't remember Che Guevra
being there. He came in after that. And
we talked how we would like to go to Cuba and----
Mr. LIEBELER. You and Oswald
did?
Mr. DELGADO. Right. We were
going to become officers, you know, enlisted men. We are dreaming now,
right? So we were going to become
officers. So we had a head start, you see. We were getting honorable
discharges, while Morgan--there was a fellow in Cuba at the time, he got a
dishonorable discharge from, the Army, and he went to Castro and fought with
Castro in the Escambres.
Mr. LIEBELER. A fellow named
Morgan?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes; Henry
Morgan--not Henry, but it was Morgan, though; and at the end of the revolution
he came out with the rank of major, you know.
So we were all thinking, well,
honorable discharge, and I speak Spanish and he's got his ideas of how a
government should be run, you know, the same line as Castro did at that time.
Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald?
Mr. DELGADO. Right. So we could go over there and become
officers and lead an expedition to some of these other islands and free them
too, you know, from--this was really weird, you know, but----
Mr. LIEBELER. That is what you
and Oswald talked about?
Mr. DELGADO. Right, things like
that; and how we would go to take over, to make a republic, you know, because
that was another form of Batista, American-
supported
government, you know. And one of his
main, pet peeves was that he thought that Batista was being supported by the
United States, and that is why we were so against him in the beginning of
Castro.
Mr. LIEBELER. So against Castro?
Mr. DELGADO. Right, because of
the fact that we had lost so much and were about to lose so much money in Cuba,
because now that our man was out. And
we would talk about how we would do away with Trujillo, and things like that,
but never got no farther than the speaking stage. But then when he started, you
know, going along with this, he started actually making plans, he wanted to
know, you know, how to get to Cuba and things like that. I was shying away from
him. He kept on asking me questions
like "how can a person in his category, an English person, get with a
Cuban, you know, people, be part of that revolution movement?"
I told him, to begin with, you
have got to be trusted--right--in any country you go to you have got to be
trusted, so the best way to be trusted is to know their language, know their
customs, you know; so he started applying himself to Spanish, he started
studying. He bought himself a
dictionary, a Spanish-American dictionary. He would come to me and we would
speak in Spanish. You know, not great sentences but enough. After a while he got to talk to me, you
know, in Spanish.
Mr. LIEBELER. How much of a
fluency did Oswald develop in Spanish?
Mr. DELGADO. He didn't acquire
too much. He could, speak a common Spanish, like "How are you? I am doing fine. Where are you going? Which way is this? Common stuff, you know, everyday stuff.
As far as getting in involved
political argument, say, or like debate of some sort, he couldn't hold his own.
Mr. LIEBELER. He couldn't speak
Spanish well enough to do something like that?
Mr. DELGADO. No.
But as far as meeting the people out in public and asking for things and
telling them something.
And, let's see, what else? Oh, yes, then he kept on asking me about how
about--how he could go about helping the Castro government. I didn't know what to tell him, so I told
him the best thing that I know was to get in touch with a Cuban Embassy, you
know. But at that time that I told him this we were on friendly terms with
Cuba, you know, so this wasn't no subversive or malintent, you know. I didn't know what to answer him. I told him go see them.
After a while he told me he was
in contact with them.
Mr. LIEBELER. With the Cuban
Embassy?
Mr. DELGADO. Right. And I took
it to be just a---one of his, you know, lies, you know, saying he was in
contact with them, until one time I had the opportunity to go into his room, I
was looking for--I was going out for the weekend, I needed a tie, he lent me
the tie, and I seen this envelope in his footlocker, wall-locker, and it was
addressed to him, and they had an official seal on it, and as far as I could
recollect that was mail from Los Angeles, and he was telling me there was a
Cuban Consul. And just after he started receiving these letters--you see, he
would never go out, he'd stay near the post all the time. He always had money.
That's why.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did you just
say?
Mr. DELGADO. He always had
money, you know, he never spent it. He
was pretty tight.
So then one particular instance,
I was in the train station in Santa Aria, Calif., and Oswald comes in, on a
Friday night. I usually make it every Friday night to Los Angeles and spend the
weekend. And he is on the same
platform, so we talked, and he told me he had to see some people in Los
Angeles. didn't bother questioning him.
We rode into Los Angeles,
nothing eventful happened, just small chatter, and once we got to Los Angeles I
went my way and he went his.
I came to find out later on he
had come back Saturday. He didn't stay like we did, you know, come back Sunday
night, the last train.
Very seldom did he go out. At one time he went with us down to Tijuana,
Mexico.
Mr. LIEBELER. Before we get into
that, tell me all that you can remember
about Oswald's contact with the Cuban Consulate.
Mr. DELGADO. Well, like I stated to these FBI men, he had
one visitor; after he started receiving letters be had one visitor. It was a man, because I got the call from
the MP guard shack, and they gave me a call that Oswald had a visitor at the
front gate. This man had to be a
civilian, otherwise they would have let
him in. So I had to find somebody to
relieve Oswald, who was on guard, to go down there to visit with this fellow,
and they spent about an hour and a half, 2 hours talking, I guess, and he came
back. I don't know who the man was or what they talked about, but he looked
nonchalant about the whole thing when he came back. He never mentioned who he was, nothing.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long did he
talk to him, do you remember?
Mr. DELGADO. About an hour and a
half, 2 hours.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was he supposed to
be on duty that time?
Mr. DELGADO. Right. And he had
the guy relieve him, calling me about every 15 minutes, where is his, the
relief, where is the relief, you know, because he had already pulled his tour
of duty and Oswald was posted to walk 4 hours and he only walked about an hour
and a half before he received this visitor, you know, which was an odd time to
visit, because it was after 6, and it must have been close to 10 o'clock when
he had that visitor, because anybody, civilian or otherwise, could get on post
up to 9 o'clock at night.. After 9
o'clock, if you are not military you can't get on that post. So it was after 9 o'clock at night that he
had the visitor, it was late at night.
I don't think it could be his
brother or father because I never knew that he had one, you know; in fact the
only one I knew was a sick mother, and then later on, towards the end of our
friendship there, he was telling me he was trying to get a hardship discharge
because his mother was sick.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never asked
Oswald who this fellow was that he talked to?
Mr. DELGADO. No, no.
Mr. LIEBELER. What time did the
shifts of duty run? This was a guard
duty that he was on; is that right?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. How did those
shifts run?
Mr. DELGADO. They ran, let's
see, from 12 to 4, 4 to 8, 8 to 12, 12 to 4, 4 to 8, like that; and he was
roughly on 8-to-10 shift, you know.
Must have been about 9 o'clock when the guy called.
Mr. LIEBELER. The 8-to-12 shift?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes; and I had to
relieve another guard and put him on.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you connect
this visit that Oswald had at that time with the Cuban Consulate?
Mr. DELGADO. Personally; I did;
because I thought it funny for him to be receiving a caller at such a late date
time. Also, up to this time he hardly
ever received mail; in fact he very seldom received mail from home, because I
made it a policy, I used to pick up the mail for our hut and distribute it to
the guys in there, and very seldom did I see one for him. But every so often, after he started to get
in contact with these Cuban people, he started getting little pamphlets and
newspapers, and he always got a Russian paper, and I asked him if it was, you
know, a Commie paper--they let you get away with this in the Marine Corps in a
site like this--and he said, "No, it's not Communist; it's a White
Russian. To me that was Greek, you
know, White Russian, so I guess he is not a Communist; but he was steady
getting that periodical. It was a
newspaper.
Mr. LIEBELER. In the Russian
language?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And he received
that prior to the time he contacted the Cuban consulate; did he not?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
And he also started receiving letters, you know, and no books, maybe
pamphlets, you know, little like church, things we get from church, you know,
but it wasn't a church.
Mr. LIEBELER. Were they written
in Spanish, any of them, do you know?
Mr. DELGADO. Not that I can
recall; no.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any reason to believe that
these things came to Oswald from the Cuban consulate?
Mr. DELGADO. Well, I took it for
granted that they did after I seen the envelope, you know.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was on this
envelope that made you think that?
Mr. DELGADO. Something like a
Mexican eagle, with a big, impressive seal, you know. They had different colors
on it, red and white; almost looked like our colors, you know. But I can't
recall the seal. I just knew it was in Latin, United, something like that. I
couldn't understand. It was Latin.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't know for
sure whether it was from the Cuban consulate?
Mr. DELGADO. No. But he had told
me prior, just before I found that envelope in his wall locker, that he was
receiving mail from them, and one time he offered to show it to me, but I
wasn't much interested because at the time we had work to do, and I never did
ask to see that paper again, you know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you
what his correspondence with the Cuban consulate was about?
Mr. DELGADO. No; he didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he ever indicate to you that it had to
do with the conversation that you had about going over to Cuba?
Mr. DELGADO. No. The only thing he told me was that right
after he had this conversation with the Cuban people was that he was going
to---once he got out of the service he was going to Switzerland, he was going
to a school, and this school in Switzerland was supposed to teach him in 2
years--in 6 months what it had taken him to learn in psychology over here in 2
years, something like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you
the name of the school?
Mr. DELGADO. No; but he applied for it while in the
service, and as far as I knew, that's where he was going once he got
discharged.
Mr. LIEBELER. This conversation
that you and Oswald had about going over in Cuba and helping Castro was just
barracks talk?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. You didn't
seriously consider----
Mr. DELGADO. No; but that's when
I started getting scared. He started
actually making plans, and how we would go about going to Cuba, you know, and
where we would apply to go to Cuba and the people to contact if we wanted to
go, you know, but----
Mr. LIEBELER. So you got the impression that he started to
get serious about going to Cuba?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes. And about this
time Castro started changing colors, so I wasn't too keen on that idea, myself.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you talk to
Oswald about this change in Castro's attitude and his approach?
Mr. DELGADO. Right. He said that
was all due to mal--bad newspaper reporting, that we were distorting the true
facts, and for the same reason I told you that, because we were mad, because
now we wasn't getting the money from Cuba that we were before.
Mr. LIEBELER. So Oswald
basically took the position that you were getting a distorted view of Cuba?
Mr. DELGADO. Right; and we
weren't getting the true facts of what was happening in Cuba. We were getting
the distorted facts.
Mr. LIEBELER. You have no
definite way of knowing how much correspondence Oswald received from the Cuban
consulate, do you?
Mr. DELGADO. No.
Mr. LIEBELER. He told you that
he had received some correspondence?
Mr. DELGADO. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't know
whether the Russian newspaper that he got came from the Cuban consulate?
Mr. DELGADO. No. He was getting
that way before he even started corresponding with them.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know
whether Oswald ever received any books or pamphlets or materials in any
language other than Russian---aside from English, of course?
Mr. DELGADO. No.
He had one book that was English, Das Kapital. I think it was Russian, a book, like I said. I go-by Russian when
it's big block letters.
And he had one book like that. He spoke Russian pretty good, so I
understand.
Mr. LIEBELER. How do you
understand that?
Mr. DELGADO. He tried to teach
me some Russian. He would put out a
whole phrase, you know. In return for
my teaching him Spanish, he would try to teach me Russian. But it's a tongue twister.
Mr. LIEBELER. You didn't have
any understanding of the Russian language?
Mr. DELGADO. No. Basically I
wasn't interested in it. In order to learn a language, I think you have to be
motivated. You have to have a desire to
use this language, you know, and I had no need to learn Russian. And just the reverse of him. He wanted to learn Spanish. He had some idea of using Spanish later on.
I'm sure if this hadn't happened, he probably would be over there now, if he
hadn't been already.
Mr. LIEBELER. In Cuba, you mean?
Mr. DELGADO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any
reason to believe that he has been in Cuba?
Mr. DELGADO. Well, a guy like
him would find--would have no difficulty in getting into Cuba. They would accept him real fast. The fact that he was in Russia. Now, all
these years in Russia, he could have come over to Cuba and learned some
doctrine. That's where he got his ideas to start this Fair Play for Cuba
Committee down in Louisiana. That must
have been supported by Castro.
Mr. LIEBELER. How do you know that he was involved in the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee in Louisiana?
Mr. DELGADO. Well, this was
brought out in the newscast at the time of his arrest.
Mr. LIEBELER. You have no direct
knowledge of that, though?